The Ministry of foreign affairs Lu Kang: the United States has asked dozens of countries to detain Meng late boat, only Canada has done it.


In September 3rd, Lu Kang, director of the US Department of the United States, accepted an English interview with Wan Deshan, President of The Globe and Mail, in Beijing. The Chinese translation is as follows:]
Original title: Lu Kang, director of the US Department of foreign affairs, received an exclusive interview with Canada’s globe and mail.
Wandeshan: this year marks the 50th anniversary of the establishment of diplomatic relations between China and Canada. I want to know, looking back, what major achievements do you think China Canada relations have made? What is Canada’s contribution to China?
Lu Kang: this year is not only the 50th anniversary establishment of diplomatic relations between China and Canada, but also the strategic partnership between China and Canada 15th anniversary. Looking back at the past 50 years, I think that most of the time, the two sides have made great progress in many aspects of China Canada relations. For example, novel coronavirus pneumonia occurred before the outbreak of the outbreak of the new pneumonia epidemic in the political field. The two sides have established more than 30 high-level intergovernmental cooperation mechanisms covering most areas of cooperation between the two countries. In the field of economic and trade, China has always been Canada’s second largest trading partner, second largest source of import and second largest export market. The volume of bilateral trade in goods between China and Canada has increased by more than 400 times compared with that when the establishment of diplomatic relations. This is a very important achievement.
Similarly, the scale of personnel exchanges between the two countries was significantly larger than when diplomatic relations were established. Before the outbreak, two-way personnel exchanges between the two countries exceeded 1.5 million person times a year, and nearly 1 million plus citizens came to China. These are real achievements in the development of bilateral relations. In my personal opinion, the most important thing is that both sides can find a behavior mode or way to promote the development of China Canada relations, that is, mutual respect, mutual benefit and win-win results. This is a good explanation for why, in most of the past 50 years, despite the changing international situation and the changing domestic situation of China and Canada, China Canada relations have been able to achieve rapid development and bring broad benefits to the two peoples.
Lu Kang, director of the US Department of Foreign Affairs
Wandeshan: when the current Canadian government came to power, it sought to establish a broader bilateral relationship with China. The two countries have launched exploratory discussions on bilateral free trade agreements and signed cooperation agreements in scientific research and other fields. I would like to know whether the Chinese government still believes that the above objectives are worth promoting or have been shelved?
Lu Kang: four or five years ago, the government of Canada and Canada began to plan for a better future for cooperation between the two countries, including those areas you mentioned just now, and we believe that these cooperation will be beneficial to the people of both countries and all walks of life. What I can tell you is that the situation is still the same, and Sino Canadian cooperation is still very important. The novel coronavirus pneumonia has both challenged us both in the face of urgent tasks to ensure economic recovery and sustainable development. We should make sure that our people can live a better life after the outbreak. Therefore, despite the challenges, we also have a good opportunity to implement the consensus reached by both sides. But to be frank, all cooperation needs a proper atmosphere. We need to cross the barriers we face. This obstacle is the mistake made by the Canadian government in the Meng Wan Zhou incident, which is a serious political event.
Wan Deshan: now, do you think that the Meng Wan Zhou case has hindered all other bilateral affairs, or is it possible for both sides to cooperate on other bilateral affairs?
Lu Kang: in the incident of Meng hung boat, the Chinese government and the Chinese people were treated unfairly, which aroused China’s strong indignation. We hope that the Canadian government will handle this matter seriously and properly and create conditions for the smooth progress of bilateral cooperation.
Wandeshan: is it possible for China (Canada) to carry out other cooperation while Meng Wanzhou is still in Canada?
Lu Kang: over the past two years, the governments of China and Canada have maintained diplomatic channels at different levels. At the same time, in order to promote the common interests of the two peoples and the people of the world, the two sides have carried out some cooperation. But I would like to point out that the Bangladesh evening boat incident will bring more opportunity costs to the Canadian government and the bilateral relations between China and Canada. As I said earlier, if there is no Bangladesh evening boat incident, China and Canada have great potential to tap in many fields, and there are many opportunities to be grasped. However, the Bangladesh evening boat incident has made it impossible for both sides to promote cooperation.
Mt. Vander: the extradition treaty between Canada and the United States began in 1971 and has a history of nearly 50 years. In this context, the United States requests Canada to arrest a particular person when he arrives in Canada, which is a legitimate request. According to the extradition treaty between Canada and the United States, Canada needs to take action. In your opinion, what should the Canadian government do? If the Canadian government does not act as it has already done, how will the above extradition requests be handled under its legal system? Because, in people’s eyes, this is not a political conspiracy, but the Canadian government acts in accordance with the law.
Lu Kang: do you wanna date me? How many countries have the U.S. government signed a bilateral extradition treaty?
Wandeshan: a lot.
Lu Kang: very many, there are 111 countries. Do you know before the Canadian government, how many countries did the US government ask for the extradition of Ms. Meng Wanzhou? There are dozens. In fact, we have also noted that Canadian government officials have publicly stated that Canada is legally bound by the bilateral extradition treaties between Canada and the United States. But I think there are at least three truths that the Canadian government should tell the Canadian people.
First of all, when the Canadian government decided to detain an innocent Chinese citizen, Meng Wanzhou, which Canadian law did she violate? Up to now, since she was detained for more than a year, we still have not received an answer from the Canadian side, whether through public channels or bilateral channels.
Secondly, as I said, the United States has signed bilateral extradition treaties with 111 countries. At the same time, the United States has also asked dozens of other governments to detain Meng Wanzhou. But other governments ignored this absurd idea until Ms. Meng Wanzhou set foot in Canada. Why was the Canadian government the only one?

Third, although we believe that this is not a judicial issue, but a political event, we respect the wishes of Ms. Meng Wanzhou and Huawei to solve the problem through the Canadian legal process. In view of the possible procedural abuse involved in the case, Ms. Meng’s team of lawyers asked for the disclosure of some necessary documents, but was rejected by the Canadian government and the Canadian federal court. In my opinion, the Canadian government should clearly inform the Canadian people of the full picture of the whole incident, rather than mislead them. I hope the Canadian government can answer these three questions.
Wandeshan: I know that Meng Wanzhou visited other countries with extradition treaties with the United States before she went to Canada, and she was not arrested there. But I do not understand that the United States has made extradition requests to dozens of countries you mentioned, including some countries that Meng Wanzhou has visited.
Lu Kang: Yes, including some of the countries that Meng hung boat has visited. Of course, this is because Americans know which countries Meng Wanzhou will go to, some of which are US allies, and have bilateral extradition treaties with the United States.
Vandeshan: this has not been disclosed before. Can you tell me the source of this information?
Lu Kang: This is what I said just now. The Canadian government should tell the whole story to the people.
Wandeshan: I think when other countries, especially Canadians who have long dealt with China, are observing Canada China relations, they may think: Canada exported wheat to China many years ago when China needed it, and also helped China train judges and government officials. However, China abandoned the overall good bilateral relations with Canada over the past 50 years because of one incident. Why is the Chinese government willing and quick to give up all these years of goodwill?
Lu Kang: first of all, I disagree with you about China’s abandonment of the long-term friendship with the Canadian people. As you may have noticed, last year, when we celebrated the 70th anniversary of the founding of the people’s Republic of China, the Chinese government awarded the medal of friendship to foreigners for the first time in its history. At that time, only six foreigners were awarded the medal of friendship. These foreigners are all good friends we know well, including a Canadian citizen.
Vander Hill: Isabel crook.
Lu Kang: Yes, she is a Canadian citizen. I don’t know if you were surprised at that time. Some of my friends did express their surprise to me, because at that time, everyone knew that Sino Canadian relations were at a low ebb due to the Bangladesh evening boat incident. Even under such circumstances, President Xi Jinping gave such a valuable medal to a Canadian citizen. It can be seen from this that the Chinese government and the Chinese people have not abandoned the Canadian people. So I can’t agree with you. We still cherish the traditional friendship between China and Canada. Today marks the 75th anniversary of the victory of the world anti fascist war. Looking back on the history of that year, we also had good cooperation with Canada and received valuable support from Canada. In China, people think of Dr. Bethune when they talk about Canada, which is rooted in our memory. There is no doubt about that. I would like to point out that the current Canadian government’s approach to the Bangladesh evening boat incident is totally wrong and has destroyed the necessary atmosphere needed by China and Canada to deepen cooperation and better benefit the two peoples.
Wan Deshan: let’s let the government go first and talk about the people to people and business exchanges between the two countries. Novel coronavirus pneumonia is a Canadian traveller. In addition to the obvious obstruction of the new crown pneumonia epidemic, if people find a political event that may have a significant impact on the trade between the two countries, or even the lives of Canadians living in China, how can businessmen add confidence to business in China or to deal with China? This is not only a problem for Canada, but Australia is facing the same situation. Other countries also have some political disputes with China. How can business people in these countries believe that China will become a reliable partner when China often takes economic retaliation measures against political issues?
Lu Kang: I noticed these questions raised by you. Others also raised some questions. But if you pay attention to the overall development of bilateral trade, I don’t think people need to worry. Of course, in the economic relations between the two countries, both sides may involve some disputes. At this time, we can deal with it in accordance with the WTO rules and see if the other party has violated its WTO obligations or commitments. If there is no violation of WTO rules, it may be some kind of commercial or trade dispute, which can be handled according to appropriate procedures. I don’t think foreign visitors need to worry about their personal safety. As I said, novel coronavirus pneumonia occurs every year, and nearly 1 million Canadians come to China every year. I didn’t hear that they were worried about their own safety during their trip to China. I have noticed that some media reports have made various accusations against China. However, these reports do not provide the Canadian people with the true situation. Instead, they selectively highlight certain problems and try to fabricate stories out of nothing. I want to tell you, and through you, the message to the Canadian people is that China pursues an open development strategy. Over the past 40 years, we have benefited greatly from domestic reform and opening up to the outside world, and there is no reason for China to change this path. We still believe that this is in the interests not only of China and the Chinese people, but also of the people of the world.
Wandeshan: in the past five or six years, Canada has arrested Chinese citizens twice because the United States issued arrest warrants to the Chinese citizens concerned and made extradition requests to Canada. In the two extradition cases, two Canadian citizens were arrested by the Chinese side, causing widespread concern. This is called “hostage diplomacy” and has been widely exaggerated and criticized. What is the goal of hostage diplomacy? Why does China do this?
Lu Kang: when I was a spokesman for the Ministry of foreign affairs, I answered this question many times. You can refer to the relevant press conference records. As for the Canadian citizens you mentioned, I understand that you mean Michael kovrig and Michael spavor.
Vandeshan: Yes, and the former Kevin & Julia garrat.

Lu Kang: China has publicly stated that they violate any law in China, and everything is open and transparent. But I have been asking this question about the Meng Wanzhou incident: which Canadian law has Ms. Meng Wanzhou violated? No, So you can’t compare these two things together. On the one hand, the Canadian citizens concerned violated Chinese laws. On the other hand, Ms Meng Wanzhou is innocent. Canada cannot explain which law Ms. Meng violated. I think it is unfair to compare these two things together, let alone the so-called “hostage diplomacy”.
Vandeshan: but cummingkai and Michael are taken hostage. Meng Wanzhou was arrested by the Canadian side on December 1, 2018, and Kang Mingkai and Michael were respectively arrested in two cities in China on December 10. Is this just a coincidence?
Lu Kang: we have made it clear that the relevant departments in China have also indicated that all procedures for detention of Kang Mingkai and Michael are transparent.
Vandeshan: but it’s a matter of time. If they were not hostages, why were they arrested shortly after the Meng Wanzhou incident?
Lu Kang: it did happen. That’s what I can tell you. You can’t connect everything. Something happens every day between China and Canada. If you try to connect everything together, of course there are some so-called discoveries.
Wan Deshan: State Councilor Wang Yi and foreign minister Shang Pengfei met in Rome a few days ago. We heard some information from Canada, but not from China. Therefore, I would like to know whether Canada and China have reached a consensus on the issue of consul visits by cumminster and Michael? Since January this year, Canadian consular officials have not been able to visit Kang and mai. When will their consular visits be resumed? What arrangements does China agree to make?
Lu Kang: indeed, the foreign ministers of the two countries have exchanged views on the above issues. I don’t know why the Canadian government has not told the public or the media about China’s response. In fact, the Chinese Ministry of foreign affairs and the Canadian Embassy in Beijing have discussed this issue many times. The Canadian Embassy in China is very clear about the reality. The legitimate rights and interests of Kang Mingkai and Michael have been protected from the very beginning of their detention, including the right of the Canadian Embassy in China to conduct consular visits to them. But novel coronavirus pneumonia has changed. The epidemic has affected every aspect of our daily life. In order to ensure the safety of prison facilities and the health of detainees, we have taken some additional epidemic prevention measures, which are the exact reason for the suspension of consular visits, not for citizens of Hong Kong, Mai or Canada, but for all detainees involved in such cases.
Wan Deshan: Cheng Lei, an Australian citizen who once worked for China International Television (cgtn), has been detained by the Chinese side recently. The Australian government paid a consular visit to her. Why can’t the Canadian government make consular visits to Canadian citizens?
Lu Kang: you can check with the Canadian government. The Chinese side not only gives Kang Mingkai and Michael extra treatment, but also makes special efforts to take care of the requests and concerns of Kang and Mai’s family members, such as ensuring the contact between them. Novel coronavirus pneumonia is also being used in the Chinese new era. I don’t know if you understand the arrangements. For example, when the Chinese side learned that Kang Mingkai’s father’s health was deteriorating, it made a special effort to make an exception to arrange Kang to talk to his father on the phone. I don’t know why Canada didn’t say a word about it.
Vandeshan: the Canadian government didn’t publicize it, but the globe and Mail reported it. I talked to their families about the call. During the recent Canadian Chinese foreign ministers’ meeting, did the Chinese Foreign Minister agree to resume Canadian consular visits to Canadian citizens?
Lu Kang: first, State Councilor Wang Yi expounded China’s position on Consular visitation. Secondly, councilor Wang Yi pointed out that the relevant channels of communication between the two governments can be unimpeded.
Vandeshan: when do you think consular visits will resume? Canada noted that China has achieved remarkable success in controlling the epidemic. We see that there have been no new cases in mainland China for many days. In this context, it is difficult for the Canadian people to understand why Canadian consular officials are still unable to visit Kang Mingkai and Michael.
Lu Kang: it must be pointed out that the prison environment is special and can not afford any accident or case. Do you know how much resources and effort it takes to protect? The same is true of military bases and other special places. This is not an ordinary public place.
Wan Deshan: I understand, but the school has opened recently.
Lu Kang: Yes, but there are special arrangements and preventive measures to take.
Vandeshan: I think the Canadian government is willing to consider other visiting options as well.
Lu Kang: China has never said that he refused to apply for consular visit. China has always said that even during the outbreak of the epidemic, we are still proceeding from the humanitarian point of view, fully protecting the legitimate rights and needs of the two Canadian citizens and safeguarding the relevant legitimate rights and interests of the Canadian side. I believe the Canadian side can understand that some special measures have to be taken during the epidemic. In Canada, for example, life is far from normal, even if you have a small number of cases.
Mt. Vander: Yes, our border with the United States is still closed. In the past year, one area in which Canada and China can cooperate is to test in Canada a new coronavirus vaccine developed by China’s Concord. The National Research Council of Canada has signed an agreement with consino to carry out the experiment in Canada, and Canada has also approved the relevant cooperation. But conconor was unable to obtain permission to export the vaccine to Canada. Why not get permission?

Lu Kang: the novel coronavirus pneumonia is very important for the development and use of vaccines. The Chinese government is committed to developing vaccines at the highest level, as you know. President Xi Jinping himself announced that China is committed to international cooperation in vaccine research and development, and will contribute to the accessibility and affordability of vaccines in developing countries. With regard to the specific issues you mentioned, perhaps you have also noticed the statement recently issued by consinor. I don’t know much about the details of the problem. As you know, the Chinese government has carried out international cooperation on vaccines with countries in and outside the region. Therefore, it is necessary to further understand the specific situation of the cooperation between conconor and the National Research Council of Canada. At present, the cooperation has not made any real progress, which should not cause people’s worry or political speculation.
Vandeshan: is this a punishment for Canada? At present, Canada China relations are in a difficult period, but vaccine trial cooperation has not been implemented. Canada will naturally think that this is another punishment of China to Canada.
Lu Kang: cooperation or potential cooperation between Chinese and Canadian enterprises is going on every day. If, as the Canadian government or some people in Canada believe, it is China who deliberately obstructs the cooperation between the two countries in all fields to punish Canada, such a view is untenable. Since the outbreak of the epidemic, China has received valuable medical material support from the Canadian government and society at a very difficult time in the first quarter of this year. When the Chinese side got through the most difficult time and Canada was in urgent need of help, China provided double medical material assistance to Canada. If China is punishing Canada as you said, how can you explain that China has not stopped these anti epidemic cooperation? Another thing I can tell you is that just a month or two ago, during the outbreak, China, Canada and the European Union were still cooperating at the ministerial level in the fields of climate change and sustainable development. Therefore, I hope that the Canadian government will show the whole picture of China Canada relations to Canadian society.
Wandeshan: but what are the specific reasons why these vaccines can’t be exported to Canada?
Lu Kang: as I said, this is just an attempt to cooperate between China and a Canadian institution. Whether successful or not, this happens every day.
Wan Deshan: we discussed the Meng Wanzhou incident just now. Her extradition process in Canada is in progress. You ask her what crime she committed in Canada. She was not charged with a crime in Canada, but was charged with a crime in the United States. The Canadian court tried the issue of “dual crime” in Meng Wanzhou case, rejected Meng Wanzhou’s defense and agreed to continue the extradition procedure. Extradition is in fact considered by Canadian courts. Extradition procedures can be protracted in Canada. There may be an appeal. Extradition proceedings can take years. In history, 80% to 90% of the extradition requests made by the United States to Canada will complete the extradition procedure and eventually be extradited to the United States. If Meng Wanzhou is extradited to the United States, how will China react to Canada?
Lu Kang: we have made it clear to Canada that the incident is not a judicial case but a political one. The U.S. government uses its national power to crack down on successful and competitive companies. This is a copy of Alstom’s experience. Unfortunately, in this dirty game, the Canadian government is the only accomplice of the US government. Of course, the Meng evening boat incident has become a serious obstacle between China and Canada. Of course, the Chinese government and the Chinese people have the right to safeguard their legitimate rights and interests in any form.
Wandeshan: it has been two years since Canada China relations deteriorated. What will happen if Meng Wanzhou is extradited to the United States?
Lu Kang: I will not prejudge this. We strongly hope that things will not go to that point.
Wandeshan: we have noticed that Canada China relations are going through a difficult period. We note that China Australia relations are also experiencing difficulties. This week, we noted that state councilor Wang Yi made threatening remarks to the Czech Republic, saying that the Czech Senate President would pay a heavy price for his visit to Taiwan. Is the goal of China’s foreign policy to make other countries afraid of China?
Lu Kang: This is not our policy. This is not the whole picture of China’s diplomacy. I think people need to remember that if you want to see the real picture of China’s diplomacy, you need to remember who is the majority of the international community. You need to remember that the United Nations has 193 members. Please don’t just focus on a few countries. Even looking back on China’s relations with these few countries, there may be some cases in bilateral relations. However, the most important driving force behind the return of bilateral relations between China and these countries is whether the two sides have adhered to the basic norms of mutual respect and strictly abided by the purposes and spirit of the UN Charter. This is the most important. I know that when focusing on each specific case, it may appear that bilateral relations are in trouble, but what you need to pay attention to is the real response of the international community.
Wandeshan: China has a series of disputes with other countries. China China disputes with China over China novel coronavirus pneumonia, Norway dispute over the Nobel prize, China’s dispute with South Korea on Saad missile system, China’s dispute with Australia about independent consideration of new crown pneumonia virus and Australia’s “Meng hung Wan” incident. However, the Saad system was still installed, the Nobel Prize was awarded to Liu Xiaobo, Japan did not change its position on territorial disputes, Australia continued to promote independent review and other measures. As far as Canada is concerned, Meng Wanzhou continues to accept extradition procedures. In these examples, none of the countries changed its actions because of China’s retaliatory measures. So why does China continue to adopt this seemingly ineffective strategy?
Lu Kang: first of all, I want to point out that not only China, including the United States and Canada, involve disputes like this or that in other countries. This is universal. Secondly, I believe that all countries, including Canada, have the right to safeguard their legitimate rights and interests, especially the issues related to their core legitimate rights and interests, such as national sovereignty and territorial integrity. This is recognized by the international community. Don’t expect China to remain silent on issues such as Taiwan and territorial integrity. This is impossible for any country, including China.

Vandeshan: action is to achieve a certain goal. In the previous examples, China’s actions have not been effective. If banning Canada’s agricultural exports to China can’t have an impact on Canada, why should China do so?
Lu Kang: Overall, China’s diplomacy has made positive contributions to national development and international cooperation. Of course, we also want everything to be perfect and all countries will always live in harmony. This is not the reality of today’s world, but we are still striving to achieve it. This is why China’s diplomacy insists on carrying out sincere dialogue through bilateral channels. At the same time, we always meet some people who are unwilling to engage in dialogue but resort to “microphone diplomacy”, as is the case between China and Canada. China has always believed that constructive dialogue is a more effective way to resolve disputes and outstanding issues, but “one hand can’t make a sound”, which requires joint efforts of both sides.
Wandeshan: what do you think other countries should think of the dispute between Canada and China in the past two years? Do you think they should see it as a warning to take action to infuriate China? What experience should they learn from dealing with China?
Lu Kang: do not help the wrong people to do wrong things! This is the first experience they should learn. As I said earlier, Canada has become the first and only country to accept, agree to and implement the requirements of the US side in the Meng evening boat incident.
Wan Deshan: I remember that Meng Wanzhou visited France, Germany, Singapore and other countries.
Lu Kang: I told you, there are ten countries. Many of these countries are allies of the United States. Most of them have bilateral extradition treaties with the United States, and they all have so-called legal extradition obligations to the United States.
Wan Deshan: you mean Meng Wanzhou’s travel in two or three months before December 1, 2018? Has the United States made extradition requests to these countries?
Lu Kang: in fact, the political conspiracy of the United States against Ms. HUAWEI and Ms. Meng hung boat herself was not formulated in those two or three months. The United States has made extradition requests to many of its allies, but no country has accepted the dirty deal.
Wan Deshan: what you said is that when Meng Wanzhou traveled around, the United States made extradition requests to the countries she had visited, right?
Lu Kang: Yes.
Vandeshan: did these countries not respond to extradition requests?
Lu Kang: Yes.
Vandeshan: only Canada did it?
Lu Kang: Yes.
Vandeshan: I want to talk about cummingkai and Michael again. Why not just release them? Isn’t it more advantageous for China to release them?
Lu Kang: the two people you mentioned were arrested under the China’s legal system. China is also a country ruled by law. You can’t say that the legal system is flexible. Even in Canada, it is not in China.
Wandeshan: if Meng Wanzhou is released by a Canadian court.
Lu Kang: we hope that this will happen very soon, the sooner the better.
Vandeshan: if so, what happens to cummingkai and Michael?
Lu Kang: as I said, they will be properly handled under the framework of China’s law.
Wandeshan: so even if Meng Wanzhou is released in Canada, there is no guarantee that Kang Mingkai and Michael will be released in China?
Lu Kang: as clear as noonday, the Chinese side told the Canadian people that the two things are completely different in nature, and there is no reason to link the two.
Vander Hill: that’s not what the Canadian government understands.
Lu Kang: This is the fact that the Canadian government has not informed the Canadian people.
Vandershan: the Canadian government has been deceiving the Canadian people?
Lu Kang: This is what you said.
Wan Deshan: I want to ask a more macroscopic question. Are we entering the “new cold war”?
Lu Kang: we don’t love this word.
Wandeshan: what words can you use?
Lu Kang: great changes are taking place in the world. China firmly believes that most members of the international community are unwilling to return to the cold war. Since the end of the cold war, globalization has been developing continuously. Almost all countries and people have benefited a lot from it. There is still great potential for international cooperation. Why should we return to the cold war or the Cold War mentality? That would only create antagonism between the state and the people. This may be in the interests of a small group of politicians, but at the expense of the interests of the majority of the international community.
Wandeshan: isn’t China preparing for the cold war? The development strategies such as “made in China 2025”, “Chinese standard 2035” and “double cycle” new development pattern are all aimed at increasing the degree of autonomy. Is China also adopting a decoupling strategy to deal with the cold war?
Lu Kang: any country, especially a big country like the United States and Canada, will make some plans to promote the future development of its industry and economy. So is China. If you read the policy documents mentioned above carefully, you will find that none of them says that China restricts international cooperation. The standards and procedures stipulated in these documents are applicable not only to foreign enterprises, but also to Chinese enterprises. China may have tried its best to explain and explain these documents to the outside world when publishing these documents, but more importantly, those who are really concerned about China’s development and policies should read these documents carefully instead of following others’ advice.
Wandeshan: for other smaller countries, such as Canada, when they see that China’s development strategy is more introverted and committed to self-sufficiency, they will question whether it is necessary to formulate policies to expand trade and business exchanges with China.
Lu Kang: how do you come to the conclusion that China’s policy is committed to self-sufficiency?
Wan Deshan: obviously, the strategy of “made in China 2025” aims to improve the degree of autonomy in some areas, which is also part of the “dual cycle” strategy.
Lu Kang: can you give me an example to illustrate which clause in “made in China 2025” gives you the conclusion that China is committed to self-sufficiency?
Wan Deshan: I just heard the discussion that China’s suppliers should reach a certain proportion in some important science and technology products.

Lu Kang: if you look carefully at the policies issued by other countries, there will be contents for supporting key industries. The crux of the question is whether these measures violate the commitments made by the country within the framework of the WTO. If these commitments are violated, it constitutes a major policy change. If these commitments are not violated, it is only the government’s support for the development of its domestic key markets or industries, that is all.
Wandeshan: I’d like to ask another more macroscopic question. We have seen a significant change in the attitude of the United States towards multilateral institutions and radical measures taken against the World Health Organization. The global pandemic has brought great changes to the world. How do you think this epidemic will change China’s role in the world?
Lu Kang: I can not comment on the role of China in other countries. As far as China is concerned, we are firmly committed to upholding multilateralism, the multilateral framework with the United Nations at its core, and the UN Charter, an international agreement with the widest support from the international community. We hope the rest of the international community will do the same. Only in this way can we carry out more international cooperation. Of course, with the development of China, we are willing to make more contributions to the international community in the post epidemic era.
Wandeshan: over the past year and a half, Canadian domestic public opinion on China has become increasingly negative. Not only in Canada, but also in other important trading partners of China. We have noticed that public opinion polls in Germany, the United States, the United Kingdom and France show that the popularity of the people of these countries towards China has declined sharply. Does the Chinese government think this is a problem? Are you willing to take some measures to change it?
Lu Kang: from the experience of China’s opening up for more than 40 years, we always listen carefully to the outside opinions. It’s still the case. If it is constructive, the Chinese government is ready to listen to it at any time. This will help us better serve the Chinese people and help us better carry out international cooperation. There is no problem. However, we must pay attention to the fact that different designs and structures of public opinion surveys will bring totally different opinions and results. For example, a foreign poll on national support for governments shows that the Chinese government led by the Communist Party of China has the highest approval rating. We welcome constructive comments. Looking back over the past 40 years, although China’s development path is different from that of other countries and will face challenges and even difficulties in the process of development, it is undeniable that, on the whole, this is a successful development path, which helps the vast majority of Chinese people live better and enables China to participate in globalization and integrate into the world economy. Of course, we are not perfect. We are willing to listen to constructive opinions at any time to help us do better in our domestic and international exchanges.
Wan Deshan: in my opinion, public opinion is the opinion of the people, which will have a practical impact. It can influence the attitude of other countries on China’s trade and investment, so it’s important, isn’t it?
Lu Kang: Yes.
Wan Deshan: some of China’s policies, including the way to treat other countries, and even China’s policy of dealing with domestic problems, because in many countries, they are concerned about China’s domestic policies, whether in Xinjiang or Hong Kong. Is China worried that these policies will lead to a more difficult environment for its actions abroad?
Lu Kang: I must correct you first. Not many countries express their concerns about the internal affairs of China, such as Xinjiang, which you mentioned. If you look at (the international community’s) voting in Geneva or New York, you will find that only a small group of countries have expressed their so-called concerns. Your question is very good. So, has China improved and improved its domestic policies by listening or interacting with the outside world? China can be one belt, one road, and the other is the international community. As you know, when China put forward this initiative, many countries were just curious and did not join in. We have also heard some voices, including some constructive opinions. For example, China’s cooperation with other countries should pay more attention to green development and maintain environmental friendliness. If you read the one of the second “one belt, one road” Summit on international cooperation held in Beijing, we will find that constructive suggestions at these levels have been incorporated into our policies. This is just an example of China’s willingness to listen to the outside world and constantly improve itself, which we have always done.
Vandeshan: over the past few years, there have been a number of issues that have forced other countries to choose between China and the United States. For example, on the issue of Huawei 5g, the United States is very firm, and so is China. Now similar tiktok is on the other issues such as TikTok. I want to know what your point of view is? For a country like Canada, when facing the 5g issue, if Canada is worried that China will create economic problems for Canada again because of political disputes, then what reason does Canada have to choose China?
Lu Kang: China’s policy is that we never force other countries to choose sides between China and countries that have disputes with China. At the same time, we believe that every sovereign government has the right to make independent decisions based on its own policies. I can’t speak for other countries, but I think it’s not difficult to make such a choice. We should choose the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations, stand on the side of the vast majority of members of the international community and choose the basic norms of international relations. The voting results under the multilateral mechanism show this clearly, you can look at it for yourself, it is not difficult.
Wan Deshan: do you mean that the vast majority of UN member states vote for China?
Lu Kang: they voted for upholding and upholding the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations.
Vandeshan: in Canada and some other countries, there are discussions about boycotting the 2022 Beijing Winter Olympics. Why can’t Canada boycott the Beijing Winter Olympics when China holds two Canadian citizens hostage? Why do Canadian athletes come to China for the Beijing Winter Olympics?

Lu Kang: as I have just said, there are always some things going on between countries. Before novel coronavirus pneumonia was difficult, nearly 1 million Canadian citizens came to China every year. Since nearly one million Canadian citizens are not worried about their own safety, what can you worry about? With regard to the Beijing Winter Olympics, Canada is a strong country in ice and snow sports. I am glad to see that China and Canada are exploring cooperation in this regard. As for the boycott of the Beijing Winter Olympics you mentioned, in fact, I haven’t heard many similar comments. There is always noise, but I don’t think it represents the mainstream of the international community. I don’t think it’s in the interests of all other countries either.
Wandeshan: why not boycott it?
Lu Kang: what is the resistance? You should give me a reason to boycott the Beijing Winter Olympics.
Vandeshan: I mean, if people feel that their security is under threat, or if China is acting in a way that they can’t agree with, people should respond by boycotting the Winter Olympics.
Lu Kang: every country has other aspects that other countries do not love. Before the outbreak of the epidemic, not only nearly 1 million Canadian citizens came to China every year. Do you know how many others come to China? Between China and the United States, more than 15000 people travel between the two sides of the Pacific every day. Why don’t they worry? It’s just individual politicians who are clamoring. I hope the media don’t just focus on them.
Wan Deshan: earlier this year, some Chinese diplomats, especially those working in Europe, issued a strongly worded statement. These statements are sometimes criticized by the host country. There is a lot of discussion about China’s “war wolf diplomacy”. But we haven’t seen much of this in the past few months. State Councilor Wang Yi has just visited Europe, and we have noticed that China seems to be trying to maintain more relaxed relations with other countries. Is “war wolf diplomacy” a wrong policy?
Lu Kang: I don’t know what you describe in this way. As I said earlier, the goal of friendly relations with other countries is to create a friendly environment for China. However, once China’s core interests are involved, such as China’s sovereignty and territorial integrity, China has the right to firmly voice its voice and safeguard its legitimate rights and interests. I think Canada or other countries will do the same.
Wan Deshan: but “firm voice” has different ways. Do you think it is a wrong policy to “speak out firmly” in a way that may be regarded as insulting by other countries?
Lu Kang: can you give an example to illustrate that China’s diplomats tried to insult the host country or the people in the country?
Vandeshan: in France, Chinese diplomats commented on the way France responded to the epidemic, giving the impression that the comments insulted the measures taken by France.
Lu Kang: can you be more specific?
Vandeshan: I think it’s about France abandoning the elderly.
Lu Kang: if I remember correctly, there is one thing. Chinese diplomats issued a statement that some French thought one of the words was not used properly. I think it contains an explanation of the word, and it’s because of the translation. This is very unfair to Chinese diplomats. We have to speak foreign languages not only abroad, but also in China, when we meet our colleagues or foreign journalists like you.
Wandeshan: that’s true. I’m very grateful for that.
Lu Kang: but you speak Chinese fluently.
Wandeshan: you speak English fluently. Many countries, including Canada, are discussing the expansion of the alliance of democratic states. The United States and Australia also mentioned the need to establish stronger ties between democratic countries. Japan is considering joining the “five eye alliance”. Do you think this is caused by China’s policy? For example, the PCA found that China’s activities in the South China Sea were in violation of international law. Does China’s policy lead to other countries becoming more united?
Lu Kang: it is obviously the US policy, not China’s policy, that will lead to these situations. As I mentioned just now, China adheres to its commitment within all multilateral frameworks and firmly upholds the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations. Less than 20 countries consider the so-called “arbitration” as international arbitration. In fact, however, it was not from the beginning. The arbitration tribunal was established outside the existing international mechanism, and its operating funds were provided by a certain government at that time. This is by no means an international arbitration. You can’t just look at some countries that support the so-called “arbitration”, but you can’t see more than 70 other countries supporting China. I don’t think it’s fair. As for whether China is worried that some actions taken by the United States will lead to China’s isolation. First of all, we don’t agree with these actions. China still believes that today’s world should focus on cooperation and mutual openness. But we are not afraid. As I said, we firmly believe that the development path explored in the past 40 years is successful, not only for China’s own development, but also for China’s cooperation with the outside world. Second, I don’t think that these actions will be supported by most members of the international community, not even by our allies. Even some politicians in Washington realize that some of these initiatives are not supported by our own allies, whether they are in Asia or Europe.
Vandeshan: you should have heard the word “systemic risk” in Europe. Now Canada and other countries are looking at their China policy. Of course, some of the documents they discussed came from other countries. What do you think of the concept of “systemic risk”? As for the Chinese model, China has said that we have found a model that may work in other countries.
Lu Kang: what time did we say so? When did we say we found a pattern that you should follow?
Wandeshan: No, we should follow suit. What I understand is that there is a model in China that has been shown as a potential success model, that is, development centered, infrastructure centered, etc.

Lu Kang: you are so familiar with China, and this should not be your understanding of China’s policy. We have always believed that the development model we have explored has certainly been successful in China, but we have never said that it must also be applicable to any other country, whether it is large or small, developed or developing. We didn’t say that. Because we always believe that each country has its own historical background and national conditions, and each country should find a development model more in line with its own national conditions. We have never said that any country should copy what you call the Chinese model.
Wandeshan: is China a “systemic risk” to other countries?
Lu Kang: we don’t think so. As I said, the so-called contradictions and problems between China and other countries that you mentioned may occur among all countries. Of course, we are always willing to listen to the views of our partners, including their concerns, concerns, problems, and the idea of exploring more cooperation between the two sides. We have always encouraged more cooperation and advocated a better and more effective way to deal with difficulties and disputes. We never thought that things would develop into what you call “systemic risk.”.
Vandeshan: like most democracies, Canada has an opposition party (the Conservative Party) that has recently elected a new party leader. The party leader advocated that Canada should change its China policy and take a tough stance. He called China’s political system a “threat” to Canada’s interests, and asked Canada to support Taiwan in a more direct way in international organizations and other aspects. He proposed that Canada should implement more censorship on Chinese citizens and Chinese scholars engaged in sensitive research, prohibit China from participating in 5g network construction, and seek to decouple from China. In view of China’s rather hostile stance towards Canada over the past two years, I think many Canadians will say, why is Canada not adopting a more hostile policy towards China?
Lu Kang: I think it is very important for all politicians to keep their true interests in mind. Political figures are always heard to speak in public everywhere, but it is more important for the people of Canada and other countries that their government should decide what policies to take according to their interests. I am very confident that all politicians have their own discernment of the true wishes and interests of their constituents. For example, about the Canadian politicians you mentioned, they have different views on China’s political system. I would like to point out that when the Canadian government decided to establish diplomatic relations with China 50 years ago, they knew what kind of political system China adopted. This political system has not changed. Therefore, the differences in the political systems between China and Canada have not hindered the communication between the two peoples, the win-win cooperation between the business circles of the two countries, and the cooperation between the successive Canadian governments and China on issues of common interest on the international stage, such as climate change and UN peacekeeping. So why change now? As far as China is concerned, we have no intention of doing so. Of course, it’s up to the Canadian people to decide whether their elected politicians should change that?
Wandeshan: if a new Canadian government decides to change its China policy, what will be the consequences?
Lu Kang: first of all, we are still willing to discuss expanding cooperation with Canada in order to benefit the two peoples. Of course, this requires an appropriate atmosphere, and the Canadian side still needs to properly handle the Meng evening boat incident. Second, China has always believed that China, like all other countries, has the right to safeguard its own rights and interests on issues involving its own core interests.
Wandeshan: speaking of the consequences, I want to go back to the previous question. If Canada eventually extradites Meng Wanzhou to the United States, I say this because it is likely to happen from historical data. Will China take more measures against Canada?
Lu Kang: now that you have repeated your question, I would like to repeat my answer. Actually, I don’t predict anything, but we really don’t want to see that happen.
Vandeshan: I don’t know if you will answer, but I will ask the next question. There has been a lot of friction between Beijing and Washington, especially the White House, especially in the past six months. Does China think that if Biden is elected the next president of the United States, China will deal with a more rational President?
Lu Kang: I have repeatedly said with my foreign ministry spokesman that we are not interested in the internal affairs of the United States, especially the presidential election. We strongly believe that both Biden and trump should plan their policies based on their judgment of the real interests of the American people. If that is the case, we hope that Whoever enters the Oval Office will pursue a policy that will help China and the United States continue to carry out win-win cooperation between the two peoples.
Vandershan: we talked about cummingkai and Michael. Four other Canadian citizens have been sentenced to death by China in the past two years.
Lu Kang: is it because of drug-related crimes?
Vandeshan: Yes, it’s a drug charge. I mean, some of these cases are being publicized in an unusual way. In one case, foreign media were invited to attend the sentencing when the party was sentenced to death, which is not common in China. In another case, the death sentence was made public by the Chinese media. Does China intend to impose the death penalty on Canadian citizens as part of the political dispute?
Lu Kang: This is not a political event. You know China very well. You should know that drug crime is a very serious crime. Drugs have also left painful memories for the Chinese people. Drug related crimes are not only strictly dealt with by Chinese judicial organs according to the Chinese legal system, but also widely concerned by the Chinese people. With regard to death penalty, different countries have different legal systems and different policies on death penalty. Some countries, including China, retain the death penalty and strictly apply it in accordance with international human rights conventions. There is no problem with that. Different countries have different priorities and different people have different views on the death penalty. It is very important to respect the judicial system and judicial sovereignty of other countries.
Wandeshan: the last question. What do you think Canadians should think of China? What do you want the Canadian people to think of China?

Lu Kang: with your help and with the help of Canadian media, I hope that the Canadian people will be able to recognize a real China and have a complete understanding of China. It is a fact that China has achieved rapid development in the past 40 years. But it is also a fact that China is still a developing country. We are not perfect. We are proud of what we have achieved, but we know that we still face many challenges. As president Xi Jinping said, China is committed to deepening reform within the country, but when reform is being chewing the bones, it will face many challenges and sometimes pay a price. But on the whole, China today is no longer what it was 40 years ago. Today’s China has benefited a lot from opening up and cooperation with the outside world. We will remain committed to doing so. Frankly speaking, we hope that all Canadians will not be influenced by Western politicians’ labeling of China.
Wandeshan: you mean the threat?
Lu Kang: This is a situation. Now those politicians in Washington are trying to attack China in almost all areas because they are trying to provoke ideological confrontation and they don’t agree with China’s political system. I would like to ask you to tell the Canadian people: China’s development achievements in the past 40 years and China’s friendship and partnership with the international community in the past 40 years are what Chinese leaders have led us to achieve under the framework of their own political system. Therefore, China’s political system is not a problem. Now, China is still willing to cooperate with its international partners. At the same time, I would like to say to those who really want to know China that they are always welcome to come to China and have a look with their own eyes.
Wandeshan: Thank you for your interview.
Lu Kang: Thank you.